Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

smithsonianmag.com

141 points

bookofjoe

15 hours ago


36 comments

mikkupikku 11 hours ago

> Its planks are made of Pomeranian oak from modern-day Poland, and the wood of its frame came from the Netherlands.

I'm surprised the raw materials came together over such a distance. That transporting lumber was economical back then is remarkable.

  • mk_stjames 4 hours ago

    I live in a late 18th-century rowhouse where there is large stonework for window sills/surrounds/doorways all done in a very specific pink granite that was carved from a shoreline quarry a significant distance away. Massive stones, 100kg+ each, had to be transported by horse-drawn cart, over not-easy-terrain, a distance that would have taken two horses probably 8-9 hours per trip, and enough stones that it was probably 15-20 trips. Let alone the effort that had to have been required to carve surprisingly square/cuboid shapes from solid granite without power tools. It's mindblowing to me that someone was able to afford such a home construction, let alone the time taken to do it, in ~ 1790. It isn't a particularly rare style in this neighborhood either.

    Fast forward 200 years, and I was sweating at the cost just to hire someone to deliver new hardwood countertops from a place not much further away. By truck. By a single person. In a single afternoon. No horses required.

  • twic 11 hours ago

    Well, as the article says:

    > Per the statement, the large vessels were made to sail north from the Netherlands, around Denmark and toward the Baltic Sea. [...] Uldum adds that shipbuilders made the cogs as large as possible to transport bulky cargo, like timber

    Once you've built one cog, you've got the ideal tool to fetch Polish timber to build more!

    • nickpinkston 7 hours ago

      Yea, this is like the early railroads making steel cheaper via cheaper transport of bulk ore/coal, that made cheaper railroads, that then ship more products made of steel to larger markets opened by the extended rail networks, etc.

      This happened with tin all the way back in the Bronze Age, where a lot of it was shipped as ingots from industrial-scale mines / smelters in Cornwall all the way to the Mediterranean empires to mix with copper to make Bronze.

      A cog-based auto-catalytic wood industry is super interesting.

      • monero-xmr 3 hours ago
        3 more

        Also this stuff never happens by design. Some entrepreneur notices things and the costs, make a decision, suddenly more products exist, organic trading routes appear. There is no need for computers or grand design or hyper-managerial government. The market solves the problem

        • nickpinkston 2 hours ago
          2 more

          In the US context that's largely true, with the government providing useful regulations after the fact (allowing national corporations, railroad right-of-way law, etc.).

          The exception being guys like JP Morgan who organized industry cartels that acted as private "central planners", part of which turned into the current Federal Reserve Bank.

          But for countries like China and many others in Asia with strong state capacity, industrial policy was planned top-down for the "commanding heights" of industry like: roads, rail, shipping, airlines, telecom, steel, energy, etc., and that actually worked very well, faster than private markets alone, with the benefit of existing tech and models to follow.

          • monero-xmr an hour ago

            We are talking about a sophisticated international trading system that happened 600 years ago. Clearly you don’t need anything like that to make it happen. Let alone Ancient Rome, Greece, Assyria, Sumer…

    • pseudohadamard an hour ago

      >Once you've built one cog, you've got the ideal tool to fetch Polish timber to build more!

      It's cogs all the way down!

  • jacquesm an hour ago

    This is because the material characteristics were so important that there simply were no good alternatives. Just like you would use steel for one thing and aluminum for another today. There were whole libraries of wood samples that you could go and look at or even test to ensure that your structure held up. Windmills are another item where wood from multiple locations came together.

    Wood ranges from one extreme to another in terms of density, hardness, ease of working, strength in various directions and so on. There are hardwoods that are so hard that you can't really work them with normal tools and there are softwoods so light that you have to handle them carefully or you'll dent them.

  • Duanemclemore 10 hours ago

    Check out the History of the Germans season on the Hanseatic League [0]. The bulk goods trade was in the Baltic / Northern Europe was actually huge. The Hansa themselves traded all the way from London to Novgorod. Anyway, it's an absolutely fascinating subject and period.

    [0] https://historyofthegermans.com/hanseatic-league/

  • namenotrequired 8 hours ago

    I’m more surprised we can tell so precisely where wood that spent 600 years under the sea came from

  • benj111 9 hours ago

    Is it possible the ship was rebuilt?

    • tokai 9 hours ago

      No the wood is also dated.

      • evereverever 9 hours ago
        4 more

        Too wet to be on tinder though.

        • cardamomo 8 hours ago
          3 more

          Dendrochronology-based age verification is coming soon

          • collingreen 7 hours ago
            2 more

            Slow clap.

            Also, there's a "rings" joke in here somewhere about Tinder not being for finding a marriage but I can't figure it out.

            • TeMPOraL 6 hours ago

              Maybe s/marriage/stable marriage/, then we can talk about growing population of multi-ringers.

asymmetric 9 hours ago

> On its stern, researchers were shocked to find extensive remains of a castle, a kind of covered deck where the crew would have sought shelter. Records show that castles were distinctive features of medieval cogs, but no physical evidence of them had previously been identified.

I suppose this explains why the thing that exists on more modern ships is called a “forecastle”.

PS go check the pronunciation for that word as it’s quite surprising.

  • lostlogin 2 hours ago

    ‘Folksal’?

    You aren’t wrong.

mmooss 12 hours ago

Is there a paper somewhere?

Statement from the Viking Museum:

https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/en/about-us/news-and-press...

Documentary referenced in the statement (I think):

https://www.dr.dk/drtv/episode/gaaden-i-dybet_-fra-ukendt-ha...

  • tocs3 an hour ago

    I am wondering if there is any historical record of the ship and/or its sinking.

  • tokai 10 hours ago

    No. It's going to take some time, and theres a good change it'll come as a danish language monography or one or more phd thesis'.

lisper 5 hours ago

Apparently no one has mentioned the Vasa here yet, so I'll do it:

https://www.vasamuseet.se/en

Not quite as old but preserved almost intact and now restored on dry land. Well worth a visit.

alberth 12 hours ago

Who would have guessed the Smithsonian of all organizations would have so many video popup ads.

Isn’t the greatest experience on mobile when so little of the content can be seen due to popups.

  • shiroiuma 2 minutes ago

    It always amazes me how many people on "hacker news" don't use an ad-blocker.

  • quinncom 11 hours ago

    Smithsonian Mag used to be the Institution’s brain‑child, now it’s just a click‑bait lifestyle tabloid full of celebs. The magazine’s editorial directives have diverged from the institutions mission. They care more about pageviews and ads than research.

  • dyauspitr 11 hours ago

    I can appreciate their troubles. How is someone supposed to pay for all the overhead that goes into research and writing these articles without a source of income. People also seem dead against subscriptions. The only way that seems to work is appealing to the LCD and raking in stream bucks but not all media/literature, especially the valuable kind, is conducive to that model.

  • Zardoz84 11 hours ago

    Ads ? What Ads...

    I forgot that I use Firefox for Android with uBlock Origin. I don't see any ads NEVER.

    • stronglikedan 10 hours ago

      > I don't see any ads NEVER

      So you see some ads occasionally? Then why are you asking "what ads"?

paulnpace 11 hours ago

Amazingly under only 40' of water.

  • patall 10 hours ago

    The baltic has tons of wrecks. Because of its brackishness, both marine and fresh water wood decomposing organism dont survive there and thus old ships got preserved really really well. Some are in really shallow (walkable) water, especially in areas where the land is rising.

  • Someone 11 hours ago

    That may be not that amazing for a shipwreck in the Øresund. According to Wikipedia, its maximum depth is 40m (130’) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Øresund), so chances are a lot of it is less deep. There also may be sampling bias, with shipwrecks in shallower water being more likely to be found, and, if the tides flow faster in deeper water, survivorship bias.

    • bluGill 10 hours ago

      ships are less likely to wreck in deep water. Storms can sill overturn them (though if they are unstable getting to deep water is questionable). You mostly expect wrecks from hitting rocks on the bottom. Though in war time sinking happens in deep water.

dgan 13 hours ago

Patrician II/III anyone? One of the best games of my childhood, sweet memories