Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

Why reject switch 1 accessories though? Sure the video resolution will have to be limited to 1080p, but that's kinda expected and I'm sure switch 2 can do that anyway

They had to tip toe around this to avoid lawsuits. In practice, they made it quite clear they think this is on purpose.

It's called plausible deniability, i.e. Nintendo can claim they were just ignorant, and there's no proof of the contrary. That is, until EU rightfully fines them.

Sure, but what about 3rd party docks which do have adequate cooling? And how is it a good user experience to just silently refuse to work?

If Nintendo genuinely cared about experience they'd just follow the standard and work with any dock, then pop up a notification if it notices that the device is overheating - perhaps even with a "We recommend the official dock" text.

The current behaviour is completely unacceptable and needlessly user-hostile. There's no way around it: their USB-C implementation is broken.

Would you rather have your phone refuse to charge for no apparent reason, or have it popup "slow USB charging" as it does when you connect it to a weaker charger?

Nintendo unnecessarily chose to make their device partially USB-C incompatible in an intransparent way. A lot of users will rely on this working (as it already did on the Switch 1) and then it just won't, and probably the user will just assume their third-party USB dongle is broken and maybe buy another one, which means Nintendo won't get anything out of it and the user will lose more money. Everyone loses but at least the pesky customer can't use a third-party product.

Please don't shill and try to find straw man arguments. Plenty of 3rd party solutions can be better than first party and cost just as much. It's not just cheap junk.

I would say that not having any video output is a worse user experience than having blurry video output.

There's never a good reason for a vendor to lock you in. There isn't a single problem that is actually solved that way. It is 100% always a money lock in tool and literally never about safety or security. Users using your product in ways you do not like is not a valid reason to do block them or sue them.

That's not a good reason not to allow it, it's a good reason not to support it. If I do that and complain to Nintendo support about overheating, they can tell me to fuck off. Worst case it should give a scary popup saying "your dock isn't actively cooled so your device is likely to overheat". Absolutely no excuse for not allowing third-party docks though.

I recall reading that the dock’s cooling is for its own internals rather than those of the switch.

It seems like this should be based on the observed situation rather than what the dock says? What if the fans of the official dock are stuck, dead or just pushed up against something? What if they ambient conditions are just so hot that the cooling isn't effective. What if a third party dock has better cooling?

Nah; Apple's notoriously not-very-good 12" MacBook and the Chromebook Pixel had it since 2015, and Apple's more mainstream laptops since 2016. Nintendo doesn't really have any excuse for the original Switch's problematic USB-C beyond laziness: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

Not even.

Early devices were things like the OnePlus 2 [0] and there were plenty of phones out before the Switch even hit the market in 2017 [1]. There were some issues with standards compliance, sure, but the market had vastly improved by the time the Switch had come out.

[0] https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType...

"rough" doesn't explain any of what's happening here.

Nintendo messed up, that's it.

Switch 1 require the charger to support pd2 12v to charge at all. Some changer may decide to skip that voltage, and support only 9v and 15v. So Switch is not happy about it.

Every device in my room except for switch supports more than one voltage config. Wondering why on the earth switch decided to handle voltage setting like this.

Usually, pd charger will label their supported voltage config. And you can read that label to find out whether a charger will work with switch or not.

Source: I do use my phone charger to charge switch during traveling

Also notice, some charger will disable part of the supported voltages when there are more than one device connected. Mine apparently drops 12v when there are other device connected (thus prevented switch 1 from charging)

That's what we're discussing here. Nintendo is doing something proprietary with their usb-c video mode, hence it only works with their dock. Still a usb-c connector though, because they are dirt-cheap.

I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation.

That fried another device when I plugged it in.

This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it.

We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.

Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous...

So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.

No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.

Nope, the old guard has passed away. It’s not the same.

It's more nuanced than that. The nintendo software prevents things, like save games, being saved at places which it deems unworthy.

The Switch v1, not the v2 OLED. The 3DS had their own memory card “format”

The bespoke protocol was the issue.

You're surprised they still exist... because they target wider audiences?

They still regularly reference labs sourced findings & data in the current videos.

https://www.lttlabs.com

They have their own site and all

Its better for business and sponsor relationships to be that way. That's why I prefer gamersnexus since they only serve the viewer and consumer, they can afford to tread on companies toes freely. Without a bit of sensationalism people and companies would never care.

I feel like that’s a significant retcon.

Switch 1 was released in 2017. PD 1.0 was 2013 , and display port out was 2014. Both were supported by numerous devices by the time the switch 1 was out.

Granted they really wanted hdmi alt mode which was 2016 but the switch 1 doesn’t even support display port out which could have been coupled with a converter in the dock.

The simpler reason is that Nintendo both cheaps out on parts and has no incentive to increase compatibility. The number of users who care is not worth it for Nintendo to care, and they’re not afoul of any regulations.

It was certainly heavily implied to be intentional. With the title referencing "Nintendo’s greed"[0] and in the first minute they call it “locking down a product, not for a good reason, but just because [nintendo] can, or […] because <bleep> you”

It’s not until much further in the video that they backtrack a bit and call it “tactical laziness” by Nintendo. Honestly, I did not get that far on my first watch.

[0] YouTube now confusingly shows different titles randomly. I’m seeing “Nintendo’s Greed could Change the Tech Industry” but that may not be its real title for all I know.

The video did very much suggest it was intentional but did so implicitly.

It explicitly stopped short of explicitly suggesting it due to a lack of evidence.

Assuming that you are referring to the Nreal Air VR goggles, those cannot accept a regular video signal over USB-C. They are NOT monitors. For making them work, they need to do pre-processing of the video stream on the host device, thereby degrading gaming performance. That's why they need an app, because they lack an integrated CPU/GPU and that makes them not compliant with the USB-C monitor spec.

And I believe that's also the real reason why Nintendo would block them: They make otherwise fluent games stutter, which will reflect badly on Nintendo and the game developers. Because people in general won't know that their Nreal Air is stealing some of the Switch's GPU performance and that they are creating performance issues themselves.

The Xbox breakaway controller cables weren't magnetic. They also could have easily put those on normal USB cables because they were a couple inches from the port anyways.

It’s a limitation of the early versions of the PD spec. The PD spec now includes features that allow a device to express its needed power draw, and wanted power draw, along with info like the fact they’re a battery pack.

In addition the spec now has messages that allow a charger to renegotiate the PD contract with a device with resetting the entire USB-C connection. So if you have chargers and devices that support these elements, you can connect and disconnect devices with interrupting the power to anything else connected. The charger just does a live renegotiation and redistribution of its available power envelope.

Also means that when a phone and battery pack get plugged in, the charger can pull power allocation from the battery pack to send to the phone so the phone charges first. Then once the phone is charged, reallocate the power budget to the battery packs again.

It's USB-C, "you'll never know" is the answer, often it's "kinda working, but extra slow". I consider having a cheap USB power meter a necessity at this point.

Oh my sweet summer child

Is that for a specific device? For standard dual-role USB-C devices they do a negotiation that is partially based on chance which power role they land on (but they can have policy that strongly prefers one role over the other).

For two DRP (dual role) devices connected to each other, I believe in a default case the one that happens to advertise as a source first just becomes one.

The standard allows for a role swap at any point while connected, and if that’s triggered will be dependent on the firmware/config on one or both ends.

There’s probably more nuance hiding in the real world hardware too.

People often buy USB cables without data wires for security reasons, so personally I would like to keep them around.

If people want to spend £400 on a console, as well as £40-£100 on Nintendo games is their choice. I am sure there are many people who purchased a Switch 2 on launch day and now regret it, likely due to Nintendo's practices. If anything, it likely has made more people aware of Nintendo's behaviour in the last number of years.

With this, despite the fact Switch 2 might sell well this generation - I think Nintendo need to be very cautious next time. We shall see.

Personally, and I am not poor, but I think it's expensive to purchase Switch 2 + games when I legally do not own them. You are getting what seems to be known as a Revocable License.

This means many things. Its not just Nintendo cancelling or bricking your Switch 2 when you do (or presumably) something naughty... it means Nitendo can officially push for end of life to the console itself. While Nintendo may not do this to the Switch 2, servers for games eventually will. Paying nearly £100 for a game that might stop working in 7 years... unless you pay another £500 for their next console and move it over. LOL!!!!!

It does not make sense to pay this sort of money when it blurs the lines of ownership. We can go back-and-forth on this all day, but if people have no issues and still want to buy a Switch 2 is up to them. Again.. It's is their choice and I respect that.

I have explained this issue to my kids and they understand my point of view and why I wont buy a Switch 2. Of course, if they want to buy one with their own money - they can.

The type of model Nintendo are pushing works better like a Netflix monthly subscription.. or... perhaps more comparable to XBox Game pass. They will likely do this next time. I am just interested what their monthly price will be. I am sure it will be laughable!

The older generation can see past all the BS.. but the younger generation will blindly accept it. When they get older and see the differences to their first purchase.. then they can moan like I am now. It wont matter.. as the next younger gen will rinse and repeat. The cycle continue.

To me, like many things, the best way to make a statement is with your wallet. That's all I am doing. If I am the minority then so be it. I might be pointed or laughed at - but atleast I stood by my principles.

(Its similar with Microsoft Windows license going back to the 90s. I dont own it. I purchase the right to use it. I dont agree with it, so I use Linux.)

For example, they retain the right now to brick your console remotely if you go against their usage policies. Which they retain the right to change at will. So, effectively you really do not own that console in any way shape or form. Shame really, used to like Nintendo once.

> What kind of 'shit' do they pull with Switch 2 they already didn't with Switch 1?

The shit that the linked article is about, for one.